Talk:Obito Uchiha
For previous discussions about this character, see also Talk:Tobi and its archives. Izanami Since Madara said he would teach him the Six Paths jutsu (listed on the info box), Uchiha Kinjutsu and a Yin-Yang jutsu... Could we infer that Izanami is among the jutsu Obito learnt? I'm sure the Kinjutsu wasn't Izanagi because Izanagi would be the Yin-Yang jutsu. I thought this would be an interesting avenue of discussion, and something to highlight. --Jingo12 (talk) 04:04, May 5, 2013 (UTC) Madara has given no indication he knows Izanami, though he probably does. Madara listed the type of techniques he'd teach Obito, he wasn't enumerating each one. Omnibender - Talk - 04:50, May 5, 2013 (UTC) Well, as a former leader of the clan and the strongest Uchiha, he is more likely to know, we would list him if Obito used or mentioned it I guess--Elveonora (talk) 10:14, May 5, 2013 (UTC) Surely the mention of Uchiha Kinjutsu is an indication that he does. After all, Obito did make it specially clear that his Yin-Yang jutsu (that Madara would've taught him) was Izanami. Yet whilst listing what he would teach Obito, he differentiated between this Yin-Yang jutsu and the Uchiha Kinjutsu. Perhaps not definite, however could we make a little note that is is arguably possible? Akin to how we've got Orochimaru's Sage status in a manner that pleases everyone. --Jingo12 (talk) 15:33, May 5, 2013 (UTC) We list Madara as a user of Izanagi, so we either remove that or list both also as users of Izanami to be fair. Also something may be both Uchiha Kinjutsu and yin-yang release in one dude, that doesn't have a thing to do with anything--Elveonora (talk) 15:38, May 5, 2013 (UTC) I'd think the both option is a good idea, imo. That idea came to mind, that he was referring to one jutsu that was a Yin-Yang jutsu and an Uchiha Kinjutsu. However when I saw the page, it looked like he literally listed three distinct things he would teach Obito {Six Paths jutsu; Uchiha Kinjutsu; & a Yin-Yang jutsu}. So that means Uchiha Kinjutsu was something different to Yin-Yang jutsu. The Izanami idea cropped up because by that point in the manga, we were already aware that Izanami was an Uchiha Kinjutsu and that Izanagi was a Yin-Yang jutsu. Rather than put Izanagi, we could perhaps list "Uchiha Kinjutsu" to be safe? Though personally I'd go with your Izanami on both articles idea. --Jingo12 (talk) 03:42, May 6, 2013 (UTC) "Critically wounded" The panel dedicated to Obito's Sharingan before he walked into Kakashi's Raikiri indicates he may very well have used a genjutsu. It is speculation at this point in time but so is outright stating he allowed Kakashi to pierce him with this Raikiri.--Reliops (talk) 10:03, May 8, 2013 (UTC)Reliops :Well, his right side got crushed, heart tends to be on left so I was wondering ._.--Elveonora (talk) 10:07, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ::It's genjutsu though. No matter how powerful he or Hashirama's cells are, nothing indicates that Obito could survive something like that when he was coughing blood after being punched in the stomach. Also note that Kakashi's hand came out of him sans the blood.--Cerez365™ (talk) 11:09, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :::Yup, I believe it's a genjutsu too, there's no way the Raiki could destroy his heart completely or that he hadn't have one before that since the boulders couldn't destroy his heart I think as it's more on left not to mention Naruto survived the same thing--Elveonora (talk) 11:14, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Did Obito really phase through the Raikiri? They're in the other dimension right? So any wounds Obito receives are real since he can't transport pieces of his body. --M4ND0N (talk) 15:28, May 8, 2013 (UTC) I don't think obito phased through because you can tell if you look closer, yes those wounds will be real and maybe he can transport even if he's still in his dimension, but he let kakashi do that so then he could think back to the time when he got rin, and remember obitos' body is like a white zetsus' so the pain or damage wouldn't really affect him --ROOT 根 (talk) 15:31, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :Transportation and phasing are separate, he is already transported so he can phase--Elveonora (talk) 15:34, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ::And where to would he phase? Don't tell me the real world this time. (talk) 15:36, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Exactly. He can't avoid attacks in the other dimension though. That's exactly why Naruto and Kakashi were able to wound him in previous chapters --M4ND0N (talk) 15:39, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :The dimension is big, he can phase anywhere. The reason they could hit him in the other dimension is that while parts of his body are intangible in real world, those transported parts are tangible in the other dimension. He is now fully there tho--Elveonora (talk) 15:41, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ::That's what I meant. It would be stupid of him to transport his chest to the real world where like 30 enemies still remain to see it as an opportunity to kill him. (talk) 15:43, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Except that the hole is bleeding so even if he could transport parts of his body in the other dimension the hole wouldn't be bleeding, and it would become whole again as soon as Kakashi pulled his hand back. --M4ND0N (talk) 15:47, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :Sounds logical. (talk) 15:49, May 8, 2013 (UTC) I think he will just heal back from this, all that junk he was doing and all he was saying and to let himself die like that?? I don't think so. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:53, May 9, 2013 (UTC) After reading the previous debate, I think it is 99% positive Obito is just using a Genjutsu, he has NOT been wounded at all. Thank god.. that would of been a shitty ending to him. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:55, May 9, 2013 (UTC) I agree that it's likely a genjutsu, but my observation was that it's physically impossible for him to phase through the attack with kamui in his own dimension. --M4ND0N (talk) 04:40, May 9, 2013 (UTC) I don't see why everyone is making this all so complicated when really, it's simple. You see Obito use his Sharingan in one panel, then Kakashi looks shocked, next panel Obito walks into the attack, and then Kakashi sees Rin standing there instead of Obito. He's caught Kakashi in a Genjutsu of the day Rin died. *sigh* There is no need to make it more complicated than it actually is. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 07:07, May 9, 2013 (UTC) Update to Personality/Ambitions With 629 revealing the true stimulus for Obito starting the Fourth Shinobi World War, the entire shinobi system, it should be noted somewhere in his personality section as currently the only ambition for his antagonism is for Rin, which played a smaller role than originally believed. Furthermore, he still has yet to express his desire for reuniting with her in the dream world since becoming an adult, so that's speculation in itself. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:24, May 9, 2013 (UTC) :I thought it to be obvious. There's no such thing as true peace possible in a chaotic world, that's why he wants to live in an illusion. Rin's death was a trigger though. Had she not died under those circumstances, he wouldn't have lost hope for "this" world. More or less, Nagato's philosophy is also what Obito believes.--Elveonora (talk) 20:35, May 9, 2013 (UTC) ::Considering like there still many readers that didn't understand that the sentence "You let Rin die" was reffered about the reason for Obito to not return to Konoha also if he was survived (indeed it was Obito's answer to this Kakashi's question), sadly no, it's not obvious...--JK88 (talk) 14:18, May 12, 2013 (UTC) :::Obito even made it clear that he holds no grudges against Kakashi. There's nothing he could have done, but he was considered a hero while in fact he couldn't even save his friends and keep a promise and the true hero is unknown (Rin), that's why he is a trash just like anybody else that is Fortunate by prospering/living off from others' misfortune etc.--Elveonora (talk) 14:29, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Obito's age Why does Obito still have no age information? Since he is a former classmate of Guy and Kakashi in their youth, if we follow their current age in Shippuden, he should be 30 now actually too. But why there is no age info at his infobox? (talk) 05:13, May 20, 2013 (UTC) :Because people still argue and make wars around this and he is in fact 34 according to manga and databook information.--Elveonora (talk) 12:33, May 20, 2013 (UTC) ::Well there could be mistakes regarding with both manga and anime timeline. However only time will tell. (talk) 15:37, May 20, 2013 (UTC) If chapter 599's 3 mistakes are excluded then Obito and Rin would be 2 years and 7 months older than Kakashi in manga and databook. If chapter 599 is excluded period, then in manga and databook Obito and Rin are 3 years and 7 months older than Kakashi. (talk) 01:05, May 25, 2013 (UTC) No your only evidence is the graduation ages elve, you ignored the reg. numbers, and chapter 599 which only had THREE real errors. You ignored the fact that Itachi and Kakashi only took 1 year to graduate, while no one else is known to have done it, you also ignored the fact that asuma and gai were chunin when rin shows the congratulate kakashi plan knowing they were 11 and 12 meaning kakashi was 11, obito was 13 at kanabi bridge thats a fact and rins scene with the paper was right before the gaiden, jonin sensei's can withhold any of their students from chunin exams for as long as they see fit or if they fail one the jonin can prevent them from taking another until he/she feels they are ready. You seem to not want to accept that either. Kurenais reg. number is right near rins who is near obitos, and the smallest a graduating class has been known as is 36. naruto and sasuke entered academy at 5 and graduated at 12, so did the rest of the konoha 9, kakashi is 8 years 8 months older than itachi, who was 4 in the third war, before it ended, and was 5 when obito attacked konoha. How many facts need to be thrown at you before you realize your ONE evidence of grad ages is not a deciding factor?? (talk) 04:53, May 25, 2013 (UTC) Ages and facts. Mind you, there are 36 graduates(ShounenSuki said at least) from the academy each time and ninja registration numbers are what a ninja is given when they pass the academy and become genin, getting their pics taken and reg. number given. Mind you ShounenSuki told me this a some time ago. Here are the facts Now Kakashi Graduated the Academy in only one year and was then given his reg. number upon becoming genin. The rest did not graduate in one year. Asuma and Gai were chunin in chapter 599 when rin shows her plan. Obito was 13 at Kanabi Bridge which took place very very soon after Rins plan was shown. Itachi was 4 in the 3rd war, most likely near the end which the Kanabi bridge incident was near. Itachi was 5 when obito atacked konoha. Kakashi is 8 years 8 months older than Itachi and he was 14 years and 25 days during the nine Tails Attack. The evidence here stacks up evenly, making Kakashi 11 when he became a Jonin, making him 2 years and 7 months younger than Obito and Rin. Kakashi Hatake Birthdate September 15 Age Part I: 26-27 Part II: 29-30 Ninja Registration 009720 Academy Grad. Age 5 Chūnin Prom. Age 6 Might Gai Birthdate January 1 Age Part I: 26-27 Part II: 30 Ninja Registration 010252 Academy Grad. Age 7 Chūnin Prom. Age 11 Asuma Sarutobi Birthdate October 18 Age Part I: 27-28 Part II: 31 Ninja Registration 010829 Academy Grad. Age 9 Chūnin Prom. Age 12 Kurenai Yuuhi Birthdate June 11 Age Part I: 27-28 Part II: 31 Ninja Registration 010881 Academy Grad. Age 9 Chūnin Prom. Age 13 Rin Nohara Birthdate November 15 Ninja Registration 010885 Academy Grad. Age 9 Chūnin Prom. Age 11 Obito Uchiha Birthdate February 10 Age Part I: 13 (Kakashi Gaiden) Ninja Registration 010886 Academy Grad. Age 9 Chūnin Prom. Age 11 (talk) 05:21, May 25, 2013 (UTC) I just realized something Obito taught Nagato all of the 6 paths techniques... that means he knows them and now that he has Rinnegan he can use them all too. So I say we add them all to his jutsu list (talk) 20:55, May 29, 2013 (UTC) We don't know if "Madara" taught Nagato anything, but take a look at talkpage discussion regarding Madara's comments about teaching Obito six paths technique, meaning both of them can use all 6--Elveonora (talk) 21:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC) That is a confusing as to the facts here, as Nagato only was ever shown summoning the gedo and using shinra tensei on a pathetic scale before he became "PAIN" I think after Yahiko's death, he found Tobi again and was willing to learn the rest of the 6 paths techniques all the way. But then again, maybe he was never shown using the techniques then?? But that would not explain Deva Path using shinra tensei to kill Hanzo, which would mean Nagato could of used Bansho tenin and shinra tensei to kill him when they first fought... (talk) 22:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC) Obito's left part In the paragraph "body modifications" I think it would be fair to add something about the replacement of his left body's part with the Zetsu materia, like shown us recently when he used Kakashi's chidori to stab his chest and it's possible to see like Obito seems to lack of any organs inside. Very likely also his left arm must have been replaced (and this would be able to explain the loss of the Zetsu materia from his left arm after Minato's rasengan), but we can't have certainty about it. Anyway I think that we can be sure at least about the replacement of the left part of his thorax.--JK88 (talk) 15:08, June 4, 2013 (UTC) His lack of organs was likely a genjutsu--Elveonora (talk) 15:19, June 4, 2013 (UTC) Plot Hole On This page it states that Obito Uchiha propted the Ame Orpahns to form Akatsuki and controlled Yagura. This was done directly after they were trained by Jiraiya. However the page on Jiraiya states that he hadn't even begun training Minato yet which raises the question. How could have Obito prompted the Orphans to form Akatsuki and controlled Yagura if the thrid great ninja war hadn't even started yet? There are three posibilities: 1: The Ame Orphans and Yagura actually met the real Madara Uchiha. This however is unlikely as all sources state that it was Obito. 2: The Ame Orphans were 7 when Jiraiya first met them. He trained them for three years. Let's assume that Minato is the same age as them. So when Jiraiya returns Minato is 10 just graduated from the academy. Minato becomes a Jounin at say 16. He then leads his own team of Obito (aged 9), Kakashi (aged 5) and Rin. Obito was 13 when Kanami bridge happened. Give him 1 year to recover from getting crushed. That would leave the Ame Orpahns at 21 when Obito went to them. . However this would mean that Obito was 16 when he attacked Konoha. The reason for the timeline being sped up is that rumours quickly spread about the Ame orphans which would imply that Akatsuki was formed quite quickly. However that would mean that Minato became Hokage a 21. This is plausible but rather unlikely. 3: Obito can use Kamui to travell through time. It is called time space ninjutsu after all. This is the most likely option. (talk) 08:21, June 10, 2013 (UTC) Skrasnic * No, he was dead by then and manga showed Obito meeting them, you know this. * Yes and no, the attack on Konoha happened about 5 years after the Kannabi Bridge incident, so Obito was about 18, the rest is correct. For Minato's Hokage age, I'm not sure now if he became Hokage after the war (this would render his reign to about 1 year) or already during it after victory over the bridge mission. For his actual age, everything fits him being as old as Ame Orphans which are about as old as Inoichi, Chooza and Shikaku were, so he died as circa 26. He either became Hokage at 21 as you say or 25. His conversation with A and B suggest the former though. * nice try * I still don't understand what Yagura has to do with anything? There's no error. Obito controlled Yagura during the war and even possibly still after.--Elveonora (talk) 14:47, June 10, 2013 (UTC) Yeah Obito was 16 if you count chapter 599 when he attacked Konoha. He was 13 when he "died" at Kanabi Bridge. If you go by the Databook Only, then Obito would be 18 at the Kyuubi Attack. (talk) 07:11, June 11, 2013 (UTC) Tracking/sensing since this site doesn't speculate or assume should we get rid of the spot that says he can locate people? for all we know Zetsu is the one that is locating people for him. (talk) 02:09, June 14, 2013 (UTC) NaruHina4ever :It's not speculation, he was able to follow the 4th Hokage when the 4th teleported away from him. TricksterKing (talk) 02:15, June 14, 2013 (UTC) ::We don't know how he does it though. When he intercepted Taka when they were on their way to Konoha, he said he had ways to find them, but didn't elaborate upon it. Omnibender - Talk - 02:23, June 14, 2013 (UTC) :::The Suit Clone was stated by Zetsu that it was basically his clone and that it and he could communicate telepathically. (talk) 02:27, June 14, 2013 (UTC) NaruHina4ever p.s his ways could be zetsu (talk) 02:33, June 14, 2013 (UTC) NaruHina4ever :And Zetsu telepathy only works when they're near one another, and as far as we know, there was no Zetsu with Taka for them to talk. Maybe they had spores, but they grow when activated, and for the telepathy to kick in, another Zetsu would need to be close by. Omnibender - Talk - 03:01, June 14, 2013 (UTC) ::Kind of an assumption, but aren't Zetsus sensors? He is half-one--Elveonora (talk) 09:15, June 14, 2013 (UTC) :::The "method" was sort of proven already to not have been Tobi, but Zetsu. Remember the Zetsu spores on Sasuke prior? Orochimaru commented that Tobi had them place so they can observe and help Sasuke if need be. I too vote that we remove the part about him finding people anywhere in the world. I mean, he found Minato because he possibly knows the sensing technique. That's not as farfetched as finding anyone in the world, no matter their location. Doesn't make sense, he never said he could do that, and we know how Tobi tracked Sasuke. That particular section, about Tobi's "tracking skills" should be removed. KotoSenju ('''OldUser:'JaZZBaND)''-Talk- 11:00, June 14, 2013 (UTC) Black zetsu was able to sense naruto and bee from a long distance when they got off the island turtle. Black zetsu probably sensed team taka. and as far as the fight against the 4th hokage it was stated that their were zetsu all over the place. (talk) 14:14, June 14, 2013 (UTC) NaruHina4ever So no arguments I'll go ahead and change it? :) (talk) 20:06, June 14, 2013 (UTC) NaruHina4ever Rinnegan techniques Obito clearly has them, but as stated in 576 he didn't use them due to the drain on his reserves. Taking into account that he has access and CAN use the jutsu, I say they should be added to him. Orochimaru's Mokuton set a precedent that where we know a character is capable of something, even if it hasn't been shown, certain things should be credited to his profile. This is one of those things imo.-- (talk) 23:25, June 26, 2013 (UTC)Reliops :We've added the ones we saw he could use, and the ones he mentioned he could use. Kekkei genkai isn't the same as a kekkei genkai technique. Omnibender - Talk - 01:24, June 27, 2013 (UTC) ::"come Obito, I'm gonna teach you six paths technique" he said SIX, not 5 paths, 4 paths, 3 paths, 2 paths or 1 path technique--Elveonora (talk) 14:25, June 27, 2013 (UTC) Whoops I cited the wrong chapter. It's 567 I meant. In that chapter Gai says Obito isn't using Rinnegan techniques because they have counters for them, to which Kakashi also adds by mentioning the burden of controlling the bijū. i.e. Obito DOES have access to all of the related Six Paths techniques, he just didn't use them then because he they would be countered and a waste of chakra. Chapter 636 also adds to this as Obito is about to the use the Rinne Tensei.--Reliops (talk) 23:24, June 27, 2013 (UTC) :Maybe the main "(name) Path" ones, but certainly not the specific ones derived from them. Omnibender - Talk - 23:43, June 27, 2013 (UTC) Obito's delusion? There was a recent exchange between Obito and Kakashi where he mentioned that he doesn't view Kakashi and the "original" Rin as being the "true" Rin and Kakashi, and how the Rin and Kakashi he'll "create" in his new world will be the "real" ones. I really loved that part because it cemented how far gone his character really is and it doesn't make him seem like some random guy simply bent on revenge as he himself admits that he has moved on beyond how he felt about Rin's death and how it impacted him. In that sense, it's a sign how of far his insanity has taken a toll on him or how greatly deluded his views have truly become. But yeah just thought I'd mention that since I think it'd be an interesting addition to his Personality section (specifically the delusion of viewing Kakashi and Rin as imitations to the "real" Kakashi and Rin that he's planning to create). --DementedP (talk) 19:57, July 2, 2013 (UTC) Obito's motivation Obito motivations are being described here as too Rin-Centric when the author (Kishi) clearly established that it is about more than that. His goal isn't just to create world where Rin is alive with him because he could have just been focusing on reviving her alone, his goal is to create a reality where people like her don't need to senselessly die. A world where "heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves"(Obito, chapter 597). He said it himself here: "The ones who put this hierarchy into place... the villages... the shinobi.... The realization of what that ideology leads to is what shattered my hopes and dreams... That this world... is nothing but bull ****" (Obito, chapter 629) He also specifically said that if Kakashi thinks it's just about Rin, he's wrong. The progression of his character and why he hates the ninja system is actually fairly straightforward. Doubts first came in Gaiden when he heard about how the White-Fang was treated as a failure and when Kakashi was ready to abandon his own comrade over his mission. Then after he was crushed and disfigured by a rock fighting in the war, Madara pointed out something to him that clearly affected him. ---{no links}--- Notice Obito's reaction on that bottom panel. Clearly, on some levels he realizes Madara is correct and that there is clearly something wrong with a world that would do this to him. The final straw was when he saw Kakashi murder Rin presumably over some mission the ninja world put out. That is when he finally realized that Madara was correct and that the world was broken and needed fixing. Considering this, wouldn't it be fair to edit the article to actually reflect Obito's true character motivations. I think this segment that states: "Only Obito's love for Rin remained, his desire to create a world where she would exist together with him happily becoming the motivation for his actions." Should be replaced with "Only his desire to change the world remained. His quest to create a reality where the tragedy he and those close to him have suffered would not be possible became the motivation for his actions." I think that would be a fair assessment of things considering a lot of things he has been saying in recent chapters. PS: This is more of a grammatical thing but at this part in the article: "However, Obito laughed as he clarifies he did not start this war for them while using his genjutsu " Can you replace "them" with Rin or Kakashi, because it isn't very clear within the paragraph where this sentence is. Thank you for your time. Kenny U (talk) 23:42, July 5, 2013 (UTC) Kenny Obito did not want to listin to madara at first but he only did so after seeing Rin's death and that is because he was ok with how the world was since Rin was in it, but after she died he accepted Madara's plan right away and not to mention the uchiha's curse that Tobirama talked about after being reincarneited. so in my opinion rin's death IS a huge part of his motivation so i dont think its wrong to describe obito's motivations as too Rin-Centric. but really that's just my opinion.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 00:20, July 6, 2013 (UTC) Her death brought him Mangekyou, so he clearly was affected on personal level. It's true her death served as a trigger which opened his eyes on the system they live in though. She was on his mind even in the latest chapter. But well, perhaps we should make it less "rin-centered" since she was as much of a reason for Obito's plans as death of Izuna was to Madara's--Elveonora (talk) 00:48, July 6, 2013 (UTC)